I wanted to say, "no, but we're playing house not." but I Valarie: I wanted to correct his mistake, George. And I was on my knees when a little boy ran up to me, a little boy didn't know, older than me and looked at me and said, get up you black dog. I was playing a house, so I was the baby and my best friend was the mommy. Valarie: Oh, I remember when it shut down for me. , what are those things that get in the way of it that make. George: And yet, while it should be natural and it should be easy and it's part of the way we're made it a curiosity, a sense of wonder and awe, which is really at the beginning of all religious experience, nonetheless, it becomes difficult. It sounds like such a simple intervention to invite one, to see through the eyes of wonder, but in fact is revolutionary because it shapes the world around us. What, what questions we ask, you know, who, who we sit next to on the school bus, where we choose to live, who we choose to love and marry, and ultimately what policies we support, what leaders we elect. I mean, that, that way of seeing then shapes everything that we do. But if we begin to look at other faces and say, sister, brother, aunt, uncle, sibling, beloved, you are a part of me I do not yet know. Because if I see, you know, we begin with like the ant on the leaf and the bird and the tree. It was as if wonder and being wonderstruck in our faith is called visman to live in visma, to live in the beholding, as you describe, is the primary orientation. I could see all of them and it was as if I could look at anything, any, anything around me and, and say, I, you are a part of me I do not yet know. I grew up in the farmlands of central California among the cows and the horses and the, the orchards and the stars at night. Valarie: You know when I was a little girl, George, that way of seeing came easily. George: It's just an incredibly opening phrase. He taught that we could look upon anyone or anything and say, "you are a part of me I do not yet know." I see no stranger," this was the vision of Guru Nanak, the first teacher in the Sikh faith. Valarie: Mmm, Nā ko bairī nahī bigānā, Nā ko bairī nahī bigānā. So, I'd like you to unpack this language of "See No Stranger" which comes out of your own religious experience and your Sikhism and I'd like you to talk about that idea a little bit with us as we begin. George: That, that we have to learn to see differently, and that leads us then to believe something different and behave differently. And, I've been challenged by Barbara Brown Taylor and others to think, theologically in a different way first, and that is maybe before believing, beholding Sometimes in our religious traditions, we become geared toward the things we believe, primarily. I, I think I'd like to begin just even with the first word, Valarie, "See," because I think in your book, you really tell us that this is a first step. And this is the paperback version it's titled, See No Stranger: a memoir and manifesto of revolutionary love. I have another copy, a hard copy, over my shoulder, so everyone should see it. I cannot wait to see you all in person in Dallas. Valarie: Oh, I'm so honored to be here with you, George. So,, Let this be,, an initial welcome, and then we'll see you in person. And it's, wonderful to welcome you to Good God, Valarie and soon we will welcome you, to Dallas, because Faith Commons, our organization, is bringing you here. Valarie is an activist and a lawyer, a civil rights advocate and a well to me, kind of cultural phenomenon right now. I'm your host, George Mason and I am so pleased to welcome to this conversation, Valarie Kaur. George: Welcome to Good God, conversations that matter about faith and public life.
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